I know that everyone on here cares about the animals. but a friend of mine that I went to school with said that he agrees with the whole " treat animals nice" part and the fact that animals deserve better. but he says hes a "realist" and that there's no such thing as a true vegan because vegans drive cars, and ride bikes and those use rubber, and that vegans are the reason the earth is going under because were eating the things that make air.......

I'm a little lost as to what to say to him. I told him that I don't do dead animals, I have never liked leather....ever I always thought it was major gross, and I cant drive so there's that, but I wanted to know what you all think of the matter and weather or not you have any suggestions for me?????

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I am ok with riding bikes. The question is, what's the connection between riding bikes and the reason the earth is going under?

All I know, eating meat even make the world worse.

Take this 6 facts: (http://www.veglov.com/2013/02/6-reasons-to-go-vegan.html)

  • Worldwide over 852 million people go hungry.
  • 79% of annual world cereal + soy harvest is consumed by the 20billion "farm- animals".
  • To produce 1 kg of meat, you need 7-16 kg corn or soy beans+ 15.000 litres of water.
  • On the surface, which is needed to harvest 1 kg of meat, could generate, in the same period, 200 kg of tomatoes or 160 kg of potatoes.
  • 50% of water pollution in Europe are caused by factory farms.
  • The contribution of livestock to the greenhouse effect is the same as that of the entire global, auto, air and waterway together.

So I think it's still much better to be vegan and ride bikes that use rubber than eating meat. Viva vegan!

Super info!  That's the kind of thing I had in mind to post also, thanks for sharing these facts!  Add to that fact that the rainforests are being destroyed at an alarming rate, partly to clear the land in order to raise livestock.  

It's amazing how ignorant people are, especially considering they have NO basis or factual evidence to back up their "opinions".   

I have been through this discussion a time or two in my life and in this forum.  I am a vegetarian and I feel that you are right for what you do, and I also feel that people can make their own decisions about what they do and we can live side by side. I see no need for vegans and vegetarians pressuring meat eaters to see a different way, because they will see a different way if your  way impresses them.  I mean educating is great, but I just mean that when fighting and war come into the picture, then it turns people off to the message of vegansim or vegetarianism for that matter.

About his view, I hold a similar view, that if being vegan is so important that it results in accusing people of harming animals by simply wearing old leather shoes that they had for ages, then I think something is going wrong.  In that case, a vegan who never wears leather but participates in any form of motor transport might be seen as harming the environment more than a person who wears leather because it is all he has.  If he eats meat also, then it also might not be that he supports the industry if he doesn't buy meat but eats what is offered to him or what he has to do to survive at his job.  For a while we had a nice fellow who was striving to be vegan but had to eat what the canteen at his army barrack served which was sometimes meat.  He chose staying with his job to support himself than to refuse food and begin a protest which would cause him to lose his job.  Perhaps he worried about his family, I don't know.  But compare that situation where his hands were tied so to speak with a pure vegan who doubts everyone around them but pays cash willingly for things that deliberately destroy the environment.

What if it came to pass that the owners of vegan companies were using profits to open up meat factories? It is not so far fetched because eventually, the government and any profit seeking person will corner a market that seems to be profitable. My boss in NY of a health food store did not give a rat's ass about health but saw that soy milk was profitable so he invested and sold it.  He was a meat eater by the way.  So how do we know what people do with the money they make, both the consumer and owner of anything that makes the world work?

So in the end, my resolution is to behind what you do, whether vegan or not and try to help the world. Meat eaters to their part as well. I don't think we would reject the fact that drivers of ambulances that save victims of accidents are not doing their part of the good.  We can all live in harmony and promote a healthy diet and healthy way to live and be okay with the chance to have dialogue.  The truth will be shown through results.  Xiao has made a nice case for reasons to be veggie for at least environmental reasons as well as other things, so if the world goes veggie just for that reason, then we dont' even need to argue about any right or wrong in the situation.  Less arguments are always better.

But about your veganism, don't stop if you believe in it!  It is obvious that your friend can learn about a healthy diet from you.

but to add to this and further support your conviction, I believe that there can be true vegans in the world.  a person who avoids rubber, avoids cars, avoids leather, or what have you can help the world by their absense in the world of harm.  usually in some parts of the world, yogis quite often take this path of non participation.

so even while being in the city, emulating a yogic lifestlye is great!!!

i see where your coming from. im not a "eat this beet salad instead of killing the planet" kinda person. im the only veggie in my house hold everyone eats meat and im the chef...............i never taste what i cool i call for a meat eater to do that. i see where hes coming from though with the rubber this and leather that and im not ashamed to admit that i own leather shoes simply because thats all i have. if i had a choice then id choose not to wear them but im not going to go to school barefoot....................he did try my recipe for vegan shepherds pie and said he loved it and eats it once a month so theres a happy thought! but i agree with the whole let them be them and us be us.

well good to see someone being vegan and practical at the same time.  if you have leather shoes, then I say wear them.  If you don't have them, then I say don't buy them unless there is a reason that you need them rather than non-leather.  this is how I live and I haven' t had to buy any leather in like 25 or more years.

I guess my point is and where I agree with your friend is that even if you don't buy leather and don't eat meat, there might be other ways that you could conceivably hurt any animal by relating to some industry that does harm animals.  That you avoid cars is a great plus point for the environment.  I see nothing wrong with doing as many positive things that we can.  I also don't think that just because we can't live perfectly vegan in the world, like your friend says that it means that we should all just start eating meat again.  This is a conclusion that some vegans might think that the argument leads to but that would just be one extreme fighting another extreme.

I believe in a middle way which avoids extremes.

I just want to say that I absolutely love your response to this, and have shared it with some of my friends.  Everything you say here is spot on.  So thanks :)

It is unrealistic to think that one can live a life completely void of harm. But I think that this often becomes a 'cop out' excuse people use to justify their own behavior. Such as saying things like your friend  ("Why bother because reducing harm if you can't eliminate it?) I personally feel responsible for my choices...whether or not they make a difference in  the larger picture. I will always choose the route of reduced harm (or what I believe to be reduced harm) based on the information I have. If I have a choice between a product made from animals or a product not made from animals--I will choose the latter. If I don't have a choice, I will suck it up. But I will never go into "free for all" mode thinking what is the use in anything if it is not going to make any real difference. I think every action makes a difference, every life spared is huge in my opinion.

^^ Yup it's a huge cop out, typically used by those doing the most harm to justify their exploitation of animals. Wise observation! I've made the same.

It is possible to live only off the land. Humans did it for thousands of years before we came a long with degital age tecnology. It just seem realist to live that way any more. By not being dependent on animals for food we are lessing the negative effects we have on the planet. It's not realist now a days to live off the land which is kind of sad because we loose part of who we where. If we continue to take and comsume we won't have animals or trees or anything else we depend on. Veggie people are just doing what they can to help protcet OUR world.

Also factory farms cut down acers of trees so a hundred peopel can have steak. Veggie farmers use the land and replant after they have harvisted.

Meat eaters your aguments are invaild

We are eating the things that make the air? We are eating trees? Since when? LOL. As my fellow intelligent veggies have already well stated, this argument is bunk, and probably at the height of human arrogance and self absorption. Being vegan isn't about being perfect, it's about not exploiting the innocent because you have a choice. That's a straw man argument through and through, not a surprise so many meat-eaters clutch so desperately to this flawed argument as well.

Phew . .  Going vegan is really a tough choice .!!

whatever fruit we ate , whatever vegetable we ate there are chances of some insects etc were gonna killed at that process.,

we wear silk , again that collected by silkworm and we plunder there banks.

i don't know who are completely vegans but yeah i'm doing my level best to make myself a compassionate human being who won't even like to hurt animals :x

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