EDIT: seriously, i feel like you vegetarians are being even more judgmental and condescending to vegans... saying how vegans get a bad name because of this discussion. i guess we're all bad people and you guys are all better because you eat female reproductive byproducts.

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I totally agree with you, but I will add one thing in vegetarians defense: they might simply not be educated in that kind of stuff. I used to be a vegetarian for 4 years and only went vegan a few months ago. The reason for it is that I was ignorant and I simply didn't know that dairy or egg industries make animals suffer. Moreover, I come from a smaller European country where farming industry is not as global as say in the UK (where I live right now). A lot of dairy and eggs actually come from relatively small farms where cattle and farm birds are kept outdoors. I know it still IS slavery, but it takes a long time for a person to realize and educate themselves in this area, simply because the governments are hiding the truth from us. There is no way you will find out anything about these things unless yo are interested and do a lot of research or know a vegan person who can educate you. I did my research and I was shocked by the reality. Then, I immediately turned vegan.

On the other hand, when it comes to vegetarians who know all the truth and still continue to eat dairy and eggs, yes I completely agree that is extremely hypocrite of them. But I still think it's better to do at least something (like excluding meat from you diet) and taking baby steps towards a better world, rather than doing nothing at all.

What about farm-raised eggs? I only eat cage free, and in france they are legitimetely cage free because the farmers themselves sell at the market. What if you own a hen who naturally lays eggs every day? I feel like its a waste to throw them away, no?

They still have to dispose of countless male chicks somehow...

What about us who have our own chickens?  We have just a few and they are pets.  They live a free and natural life alomg with our dogs and cats and (thank you very much) give us daily eggs.  I certainly intend to continue to eat their gifts.

Partly agree about the eggs, though I think it depends on where they come from. A friend of mine has chickens walking around everywhere, they lay eggs sometimes and he takes only those that are left around. Is it also bad? 

well I can't be's like taking baby steps.we do what we think is right for us at that time or moment. I am never angry at a vegetarian  most do not know much about being a vegan , like myself.. i did not know at first. i thought what i was doing was the right thing. but at least being a vegetarian is better than being a meat eater.  same goes for all the other types of vegetarians ..those that drink only milk, use only dairy or eat only fish ...if they do not truly know the harm, why be mad. at least they are trying. all you can do is try. 

I've lost count how many times I've quoted the 'baby steps' saying in response to the fact I still eat fish and dairy products. I gave up being vegetarian seven years ago because I felt like I was failing, but now I understand that these things take time after a lifetime of being programmed to be so disassociated by your food. I feel disturbed just cutting up a chicken breast for my husband now, but I can still eat a prawn sandwich without a single thought. ...Baby steps. 

one thing i hate that meat eaters say is " i love animals and volunteer in a shelter " but next moment they are eating a burger. 

both vegans and vegetarians should stop their holier than thou attitude. if you think veganism is so superior, what about the insects that die for pesticides, what about the rain forest trees that are felled for soy. I can give numerous other such examples

Why not though? Maybe you cannot but maybe for others it is equal. Not everybody's perception of life value is the same, it's subjective so you can't really say he is wrong and he can't say you are wrong. I mostly agree though.

Semantics. He doesn't see squashing bugs as "murder." Stop pushing your beliefs down his throat and demanding he explain his view. He could care less what your ideology is. He's not so full of himself he goes on some enlightenment trip to try and tell others they are of a "sick mentality". You'll burn yourself out, for one. And especially, coming from a present rape/slaughter junkie, no one will take you serious anyways.

so according to you it's OK to kill insects because they are small? And is there any proof that they don't feel pain? they do have eyes, mouth and other senses. 

Even otherwise, even if you assume that insects don't feel pain, so is it then ok to kill cows/chicken by giving them pain killers and then kill them so that they don't feel pain???


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